Bringing a Generative AI Product to Market: RJ Talyor, Founder CEO, Backstroke and Pattern89 (Part 6)

Sramana Mitra: Can you double-click down and talk about your validation process in this company, given what you experienced in the previous

RJ Talyor: One thing that I’ve done is structure contracts. I found that everybody loves to be cheerleaders for startups, but ultimately, startups are measured by revenue. We have structured all of our engagements with these early customers around revenue, meaning if we’re gonna work together, you are committing to paying us for that.

Bringing a Generative AI Product to Market: RJ Talyor, Founder CEO, Backstroke and Pattern89 (Part 2)

Sramana Mitra: So let’s go to the point where you’re starting the first company. Tell me what was going on in the market, what product angle did you take, and why?

RJ Talyor: At that time, there was a huge proliferation of social channels. We had Facebook and then Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, Pinterest, and Reddit. Then there were all these other social channels that were coming out, and marketers were trying to experiment with their dollars. At the time, there weren’t any rapid experimentation tools on the market to help marketers figure out which ones worked and what messaging worked.

Bringing a Generative AI Product to Market: RJ Talyor, Founder CEO, Backstroke and Pattern89 (Part 1)

RJ talks thoughtfully about product idea validation in two AI companies, Pattern89 and Backstroke.
Backstroke is operating in the cutting edge of Generative AI and delivering clear ROI solving a very specific problem.

Sramana Mitra: All right, RJ, let’s start at the very beginning of your journey. Where are you from? Where were you born, raised? What kind of background?

RJ Talyor: Thanks for having me. I’m born and raised here in Indianapolis, Indiana. I always thought I’d leave, but I graduated from college with an English degree out of an entrepreneurial honors program. I ended up in this entrepreneurial fellowship right after school here in Indianapolis. It paired Indiana grads with leaders across the state and I got into a role at ExactTarget, which was, at the time, a small startup. We grew to be a $2.7B acquisition by Salesforce and became the ExactTarget Marketing Cloud within the Salesforce Marketing Cloud. So my career grew there over that ten years.

Long Bootstrapped Journey into Cutting-Edge Generative AI: Jeff Kuo, Founder of Ragic (Part 7)

Sramana Mitra: Yes, it is tough. I have a slightly different kind of question as my last set of questions for you. No code, right now is a very attractive terminology in the industry, and part of it is coming from the fact that AI is automating everything, including coding. So no-code, AI-generated software is the future that we are going towards. What are your thoughts about this evolution? How is that impacting your business? How does that impact your product roadmap etc.?

Long Bootstrapped Journey into Cutting-Edge Generative AI: Jeff Kuo, Founder of Ragic (Part 6)

So I wanna double click down on both of those marketing and go-to-market strategies: Google AdWords and Facebook advertising. So let’s do Google AdWords. Are you trying to do lead generation on no-code platforms?

Jeff Kuo: No-code platform is only a tiny portion of our keyword targeting. We target a lot of different types of application keywords. We try to target a lot of keywords so that we can target these long tail smaller needs, which cost less to acquire clicks.

Sramana Mitra: You do long tail within what theme? Is it still within the theme of no-code platforms?

Long Bootstrapped Journey into Cutting-Edge Generative AI: Jeff Kuo, Founder of Ragic (Part 5)

Sramana Mitra: Were US customers adopting your product in 2015?

Jeff Kuo: Yes.

Sramana Mitra: How were they finding you? What did you do to get found?

Long Bootstrapped Journey into Cutting-Edge Generative AI: Jeff Kuo, Founder of Ragic (Part 4)

Sramana Mitra: In what mode were you using Ragic? In the no-code mode or in the semantic database mode? And who was the client? Was that the IT department that was the client?

Jeff Kuo: No, we were working directly for the users. We’re basically like a database or application developing company. We’re were just using Ragic as a tool to develop them.

Sramana Mitra: So, you were not selling the tool; you were selling the applications built with the tool.

Long Bootstrapped Journey into Cutting-Edge Generative AI: Jeff Kuo, Founder of Ragic (Part 3)

Sramana Mitra: But the no-code hypothesis was correct.

Jeff Kuo: The hypothesis is pretty much correct, and up to now, it still seems quite correct. But the no-code part is hard to do technically. Not just that, it’s very hard to teach non-technical people to learn how to do this. It is a lot harder than I expected.